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-   -   Centuri LIA-100 Launcher -- Deflector (http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=14833)

Earl 02-24-2015 12:05 AM

Centuri LIA-100 Launcher -- Deflector
 
1 Attachment(s)
I've got some Semroc MiniMax clones in the build que and one actual MiniMax kit that I want to build as well (I've been able to snag two Jaguars the past year). I've got other actual MiniMax kits, but the Jaguar is the only one so far that I have multiples of.

And about a year ago I was able to get the Centuri LIA-100 heavy duty wooden launcher from Penn Valley Hobby Center off ebay. It was the 'recommended' launcher for the MiniMax kits, and I like/try to do all things 'vintage' if I can.

Only problem was, the launcher I got from Penn Valley included the blast deflector from the smaller LIA-77 tripod launcher. It would be functional as a blast defector, but was not the one that was designed to go with the LIA-100. Looks almost the same.....the LIA-77 deflector is just smaller.

Now, maybe in the later runs of the larger LIA-100 launcher, Centuri may have changed over to the smaller LIA-77 deflector to save money. But I'm trying to find someone who may have the larger deflector for sale OR who can at least post photos or measurements of it.

As can be seen from the attached instruction scan from the LIA-100, it DID use a different deflector than the smaller LIA-77. The part number for the ignitor/deflector for the larger LIA-100 is "ID-100".

Any body got one they can lay their hands on?


Earl

stefanj 02-24-2015 01:10 AM

Wow, that's quite a score! Probably not a whole lot of these were made, compared to other launchers, much less survived the ages.

What is the base plate made of? I recall reading that the smaller pad's plate was wood.

What is the triangular thing on the plate.

Good luck finding the larger igniter / deflector assembly.

Ltvscout 02-24-2015 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
Wow, that's quite a score! Probably not a whole lot of these were made, compared to other launchers, much less survived the ages.

What is the base plate made of? I recall reading that the smaller pad's plate was wood.

What is the triangular thing on the plate.

Good luck finding the larger igniter / deflector assembly.

The baseplate I believe is masonite. The little triangular piece is what the launch rod sticks in to if I'm not mistaken.
I still have my original LIA-77 from '69.

Earl 02-24-2015 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
The baseplate I believe is masonite. The little triangular piece is what the launch rod sticks in to if I'm not mistaken.
I still have my original LIA-77 from '69.


(home today with a five week old chest cold that will NOT leave. Asthma and chest colds do not mix I'm finding out....)

Yes, that's correct. The LIA-100 design and construction materials are pretty much the same as the smaller LIA-77, but about 1/3 again larger or so when compared to my LIA-77. Even the ignitor/deflector assembly is basically the same, but the one of the LIA-100 is definitely larger.

Both are dang sturdy designs, and while I have used a Centuri Powr-Pad for all my low power stuff for nearly 39 years (and an Estes Big Foot for a while back in the early 80s), I want to start using my LIA-77 and the LIA-100 for some of my more vintage flights, when I can make it out and fit in a flight here and there.

Earl

foamy 02-24-2015 11:08 AM

The first post on the second page (Rocketguy101) has a pdf pattern for both blast plates and there's lot's of good info/discussion on the launchers.

Did yours come with the asbestos plate?

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/show...ghlight=LIA-100

rocketguy101 02-24-2015 11:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by foamy
The first post on the second page (Rocketguy101) has a pdf pattern for both blast plates and there's lot's of good info/discussion on the launchers.

Did yours come with the asbestos plate?

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/show...ghlight=LIA-100

that large deflector is NOT the deflector Earl is looking for, IIRC that is the Aerotech deflector. Earl and I have PM'd back and forth about this very subject. I wish I could get dimensions on the larger deflector, I would add it to the print!

When I saw this thread, I wondered if just scaling up from the base plate dimensions would be close enough? can you guys measure the base plates of both launchers, and I will see what a scaled-up deflector looks like...perhaps compare it to the catalog view??

foamy 02-24-2015 01:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketguy101
that large deflector is NOT the deflector Earl is looking for, ...snip

Ah, my mistake. You didn't mention Aerotech or anything other than you made a plan from yours (77) in Solid Works.

Earl 02-24-2015 01:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by foamy
The first post on the second page (Rocketguy101) has a pdf pattern for both blast plates and there's lot's of good info/discussion on the launchers.

Did yours come with the asbestos plate?

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/show...ghlight=LIA-100


No, I'm pretty sure the asbestos pad was only used in the smaller 'beginners' pad, the LIA-50 (the small square boxy one). I have a used one of those that I got in an old Centuri starter set off ebay some years back. But neither of my two LIA-77s or the LIA-100 came with an asbestos pad.

Earl

rocketguy101 02-24-2015 01:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by foamy
Ah, my mistake. You didn't mention Aerotech or anything other than you made a plan from yours (77) in Solid Works.

no prob, my bad, actually ... was trying to avoid a "commercial infringement" or such and left the labeling vague on purpose :D I forgot that was posted actually, thanks for finding it, I will edit the post to explain ...

Earl 02-24-2015 04:16 PM

Top Plate and Leg Comparisons--100 vs 77
 
2 Attachment(s)
Here's a couple of quick photos of the size comparisons between the top plate and legs on the LIA-100 versus the LIA-77. As mentioned in one of my previous posts, the overall construction, design, hardware, and materials are pretty much the same. LIA-100 is just 'larger'. Have not assembled it before (hardware still sealed in bags) and taken direct size measurements between the two (deck height, launcher base spread on legs, etc.), but it would be a pretty sturdy launcher no doubt for many a large rocket, especially 'back in the day' of MiniMax and Enerjet F stuff.

Interestingly, if you check the 1972 (and only) Enerjet catalog, one finds that only the LIA-77 launcher is offered, with a 1/8 rod. The 'heavy duty' LIA-100 is nowhere to be seen in that Enerjet catalog. Strange. And why they dropped all the nice MiniMax rockets when they officially introduced the Enerjet line has always been a mystery to me. Cost-cutting move by the Damon suits would be my best guess. Got rid of all the heavy walled tubing kits and went 'standard' Centuri tubing for the Enejet stuff (save for the heavy-walled 1340).


Earl

rocketguy101 02-24-2015 05:09 PM

oh if you could trace those off and scan 100% that would be very cool!!! Carl did that for the smaller launcher.

stefanj 02-24-2015 07:30 PM

Thanks for the comparison photos!

I saw the LIA-77 exactly twice in my life, and not up close.

Shortly after getting into rockets I saw a family launching some at a local beach. They were really beautifully finished; I thought that they were somehow made of gleaming plastic. I realize now that they just had great paint jobs, much better than the awful trash finishes my friends and I turned out.

I recall they had a Estes Space Man and a few Centuri models. They were using a Centuri launch tripod and controller.

My elementary school's "Science Room" had a LIA-77 up on top of a filing cabinet. It was the only evidence that some rocketry-related things had gone on at the school before I got there. I never got to look it over.

I recall getting a used Centuri starter set back in the day, but it had one of the little wooden pads.

I don't recall if the local Centuri dealer carried starter sets. They had plenty of kits, and at least one model of launch controller. Well, in any case, by the time I had the money to buy pads Centuri had moved on to the plastic units.

stefanj 02-24-2015 07:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
And why they dropped all the nice MiniMax rockets when they officially introduced the Enerjet line has always been a mystery to me. Cost-cutting move by the Damon suits would be my best guess. Got rid of all the heavy walled tubing kits and went 'standard' Centuri tubing for the Enejet stuff (save for the heavy-walled 1340).


Earl


It is surprising that the LIA-100 went away. The smaller tripod was probably better for high power than the plastic units Centuri started selling for use with smaller models in the early 70s, but you'd think that a company (Enerjet) trying to project a more professional image would offer a sturdier pad.

At NARCON last weekend Lee Piester said something to the effect that those tubes were some of the best he'd ever seen. From the limited samples I've seen, I agree. The cone and fins that came with my 1968 vintage Aero Dart were also top-notch.

Yeah, cost-cutting and eliminating speciality products probably did in the "MiniMax" rockets. Seeing those disappear between 1971 (my first Centuri catalog) and 1972 was a real let-down. Being able to have those models was a driving force of my rocketry efforts around ten years ago; I managed to clone nearly all of them before Semroc made it easy!

Earl 02-24-2015 09:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
It is surprising that the LIA-100 went away. The smaller tripod was probably better for high power than the plastic units Centuri started selling for use with smaller models in the early 70s, but you'd think that a company (Enerjet) trying to project a more professional image would offer a sturdier pad.

At NARCON last weekend Lee Piester said something to the effect that those tubes were some of the best he'd ever seen. From the limited samples I've seen, I agree. The cone and fins that came with my 1968 vintage Aero Dart were also top-notch.

Yeah, cost-cutting and eliminating speciality products probably did in the "MiniMax" rockets. Seeing those disappear between 1971 (my first Centuri catalog) and 1972 was a real let-down. Being able to have those models was a driving force of my rocketry efforts around ten years ago; I managed to clone nearly all of them before Semroc made it easy!


Ahh, the 1971 Centuri catalog! That was my first catalog ever. Got it in late 1970 and just about memorized every page. Still have that copy, but boy is it worn! Here a couple years ago I was able to get a mint copy of that same catalog and geez was I reminded of just how faded and worn my original was!

That was a great catalog with all their regular kits, but also was the last that had the minimax kits and motors and the introduction of the Enerjet engines.

I can understand the end of production of the minimax motors once the Enerjets were released (and a storm induced fire at the minimax plant actually put an end to their production, as I understand), but dropping the minimax kits themselves, especially when they had some great new Enerjet motors to fly them with was still a disappointment.

Earl

snaquin 02-24-2015 10:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
I've got some Semroc MiniMax clones in the build que and one actual MiniMax kit that I want to build as well (I've been able to snag two Jaguars the past year). I've got other actual MiniMax kits, but the Jaguar is the only one so far that I have multiples of.

And about a year ago I was able to get the Centuri LIA-100 heavy duty wooden launcher from Penn Valley Hobby Center off ebay. It was the 'recommended' launcher for the MiniMax kits, and I like/try to do all things 'vintage' if I can.

Only problem was, the launcher I got from Penn Valley included the blast deflector from the smaller LIA-77 tripod launcher. It would be functional as a blast defector, but was not the one that was designed to go with the LIA-100. Looks almost the same.....the LIA-77 deflector is just smaller.

Now, maybe in the later runs of the larger LIA-100 launcher, Centuri may have changed over to the smaller LIA-77 deflector to save money. But I'm trying to find someone who may have the larger deflector for sale OR who can at least post photos or measurements of it.

As can be seen from the attached instruction scan from the LIA-100, it DID use a different deflector than the smaller LIA-77. The part number for the ignitor/deflector for the larger LIA-100 is "ID-100".

Any body got one they can lay their hands on?


Earl


In a photo dated 1978 I just noticed that I had two similar pads but I don't remember using either one of these. I always used my two FSI all metal pads for 3/16 and 1/4" lug rockets by this time instead since I was flying FSI and larger Estes rockets with conversion kits in high school.

Are these the LIA-77 and LIA-100 pads? One looks a little larger in the photo than the other. I kept all my blast deflectors in a rangebox so those are not in the picture.

I still have the rangebox in the attic but it hasn't been opened for years I may still have the deflectors but would need to check.

One pad may possibly just be stacked on top the other pad in the photo I really can't tell these could just be the same pad just two of them.

.

A Fish Named Wallyum 02-24-2015 11:08 PM

That Dart on the far right looks like mine after the E9-8 CATO in Muncie a few years back. :( :rolleyes:
LOVE this pic, btw. The vintage shots are great. Wish I had more than a crappy screen capture of mine.

Earl 02-25-2015 12:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
In a photo dated 1978 I just noticed that I had two similar pads but I don't remember using either one of these. I always used my two FSI all metal pads for 3/16 and 1/4" lug rockets by this time instead since I was flying FSI and larger Estes rockets with conversion kits in high school.

Are these the LIA-77 and LIA-100 pads? One looks a little larger in the photo than the other. I kept all my blast deflectors in a rangebox so those are not in the picture.

I still have the rangebox in the attic but it hasn't been opened for years I may still have the deflectors but would need to check.

One pad may possibly just be stacked on top the other pad in the photo I really can't tell these could just be the same pad just two of them.

.


Steve-

Thanks for the photo. They are definitely two Centuri pads, but it is hard to tell exactly what size they are. Like you say, could be two LIA-77s.

Don't go through any heroics, but if you do manage to reach the range box and can check, that would verify it for sure.

I still have my all-metal FSI pad I got back in the late 80s when I was first getting into high power, but we later built some larger custom stainless pads for 3/8 and half inch rods, so the FSI pad went unused after that. It was a sturdy one also. I have recently picked up a few old FSI kits (including a couple of the Black Brants), so I will need to dig that FSI pad out when I finally get around to building and flying one of those. I was always impressed by that Black Brant liftoff photo in the old FSI catalogs that I first got back in the latter 70s.

Earl

stefanj 02-25-2015 12:22 AM

I got many years of service out of the smaller of the two FSI metal pads. I lost it before I moved west; I think I left it on the field of the last LIARS launch I attended.

* * *
Quote:
Ahh, the 1971 Centuri catalog! That was my first catalog ever. Got it in late 1970 and just about memorized every page. Still have that copy, but boy is it worn! Here a couple years ago I was able to get a mint copy of that same catalog and geez was I reminded of just how faded and worn my original was!

I still have my 1971 "retail" catalog; it was a terrible, terrible mess with a missing cover and maybe 4 pages at either end.

I still had Lee Piester sign it!

I also picked up another version of the '71 catalog. It has the Enerjet order blank, and there are a few other differences. I remember my first 1971 catalog had a testimonial page, including one from Ricky Piester (something to the effect of "eating, drinking, and sleeping rockets"). The testimonials are entirely missing from the almost-mint catalog.

kurtschachner 02-25-2015 09:16 AM

"I like rockets. I 'eat, sleep, and drink rockets', my mom says. But then she says the same thing about my dad."

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
I also picked up another version of the '71 catalog. It has the Enerjet order blank, and there are a few other differences. I remember my first 1971 catalog had a testimonial page, including one from Ricky Piester (something to the effect of "eating, drinking, and sleeping rockets"). The testimonials are entirely missing from the almost-mint catalog.

rocketguy101 02-25-2015 09:43 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Here's what I got by scaling dimensions from the photos posted by Earl and Carl...by my ciphering the LIA-100 is about 1.105 times larger than the LIA-77. If somebody can supply me real dimensions, I can fine tune the cad models. I scaled the deflector by the same amount...

This sorta looks like snaquin's photo size-wise

edit: corrected name of photo poster

Earl 02-25-2015 02:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketguy101
Here's what I got by scaling dimensions from the photos posted by Earl and Carl...by my ciphering the LIA-100 is about 1.105 times larger than the LIA-77. If somebody can supply me real dimensions, I can fine tune the cad models. I scaled the deflector by the same amount...

This sorta looks like snaquin's photo size-wise

edit: corrected name of photo poster


David-

Here's a quick tracing of a leg and the top plate.

One dimension is provided on the top plate side, and I have also provided a "1 inch scale" on the side of the page. The 'black dots' are the drilled holes in the top plate.

This was done super-quick, as I'm at home recovering from a bad upper respiratory infection, but hopefully will be enough data to let you do an accurate comparison between the two. My impression is the LIA-100 is a bit bigger than the 77 than the figure you posted, but hopefully with this data, we'll know pretty much for sure.

Earl

rocketguy101 02-25-2015 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
David-

Here's a quick tracing of a leg and the top plate.

One dimension is provided on the top plate side, and I have also provided a "1 inch scale" on the side of the page. The 'black dots' are the drilled holes in the top plate.

This was done super-quick, as I'm at home recovering from a bad upper respiratory infection, but hopefully will be enough data to let you do an accurate comparison between the two. My impression is the LIA-100 is a bit bigger than the 77 than the figure you posted, but hopefully with this data, we'll know pretty much for sure.

Earl

Hope you get better! I had a bad URI last year that really knocked me for a loop...I had not been sick in years so I was really wiped out! PTL for "Z" packs!!

this is the LIA-100 tracing, correct?

Earl 02-25-2015 05:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketguy101
Hope you get better! I had a bad URI last year that really knocked me for a loop...I had not been sick in years so I was really wiped out! PTL for "Z" packs!!

this is the LIA-100 tracing, correct?


Thanks for the well-wishes. I'm sure my asthma is not helping, though I'm generally fairly symptom free with my asthma. I guess this virus has aggravated it though.

Yes, this is the LIA-100 tracing. I traced it all on one single piece of 8.5 x 11 paper, hence the leg done in two pieces to fit on the one page. Also, scanned at 72dpi, so the resolution is not very high, but should be enough graphic info to derive the needed dimensions.

Earl

snaquin 02-26-2015 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
That Dart on the far right looks like mine after the E9-8 CATO in Muncie a few years back. :( :rolleyes:
LOVE this pic, btw. The vintage shots are great. Wish I had more than a crappy screen capture of mine.


That was a clone Mach-1 Dart and Booster I built to use 21mm FSI stuff. I built a few of those and I think those were the last two that I did build. I belive it was an E5-6 that did it in with a D18-0 Booster. It cruise missiled across a four lane highway into an asphalt parking lot on the other side of the highway a pretty good distance away. Results weren't pretty but it was pretty cool to watch!

.

snaquin 02-26-2015 02:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Steve-

Thanks for the photo. They are definitely two Centuri pads, but it is hard to tell exactly what size they are. Like you say, could be two LIA-77s.

Don't go through any heroics, but if you do manage to reach the range box and can check, that would verify it for sure.

I still have my all-metal FSI pad I got back in the late 80s when I was first getting into high power, but we later built some larger custom stainless pads for 3/8 and half inch rods, so the FSI pad went unused after that. It was a sturdy one also. I have recently picked up a few old FSI kits (including a couple of the Black Brants), so I will need to dig that FSI pad out when I finally get around to building and flying one of those. I was always impressed by that Black Brant liftoff photo in the old FSI catalogs that I first got back in the latter 70s.

Earl


I still have my LP-2 3/16" and LP-2B 1/4" FSI metal pads. They are in storage at my friends house along with my EC102 launch controller. That controller was a trip. With an FSI electric match as soon as you plugged the cable into the hand held part of the controller the electric match would ignite immediately without pushing the button! I seem to remember a warning in the electric match kit about that ...

I will see if I can get that box pulled down from the attic this weekend and see what't in it. It's been in storage for 7 - 8 years since my last move but I do remember keeping all my blast deflectors in that box.

I also liked the fact that with the legs folded in that both my pads could also be transported inside the box, the smaller metal pad settled inside the legs of the larger pad.

.

rocketguy101 02-26-2015 09:40 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Thanks for the well-wishes. I'm sure my asthma is not helping, though I'm generally fairly symptom free with my asthma. I guess this virus has aggravated it though.

Yes, this is the LIA-100 tracing. I traced it all on one single piece of 8.5 x 11 paper, hence the leg done in two pieces to fit on the one page. Also, scanned at 72dpi, so the resolution is not very high, but should be enough graphic info to derive the needed dimensions.

Earl

Ok here is the updated comparison. They didn't consistently scale the legs with the base plate, so the LIA-100 does stand taller than the LIA-77. The deflector appears it is scaled along the lines of the base plate (about 1.12X), but that is just a SWAG on my part (based on the catalog images).


edit: added the catalog bit

Earl 02-27-2015 08:02 PM

David-

Ahhh....pretty neat! Thanks for the comparison graphics. That looks about right from one photo in the Centuri catalog that has the Saturn V and Saturn 1b in one photo (I think the photo was in the '69 through '71 catalogs).

I have assembled one of my 77s, but have never fully assembled the 100.....the hardware is still sealed in bags.

Either one is a pretty stable launcher.

Earl

rocketguy101 02-27-2015 09:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
David-

Ahhh....pretty neat! Thanks for the comparison graphics. That looks about right from one photo in the Centuri catalog that has the Saturn V and Saturn 1b in one photo (I think the photo was in the '69 through '71 catalogs).

I have assembled one of my 77s, but have never fully assembled the 100.....the hardware is still sealed in bags.

Either one is a pretty stable launcher.

Earl

I used my 77 a bunch...I think one of the legs split through the bolt holes along the plies, after many assembly/disassembly cycles. It is an elegant looking thing, isn't it?

Stargate 03-11-2015 09:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
David-

Here's a quick tracing of a leg and the top plate.

One dimension is provided on the top plate side, and I have also provided a "1 inch scale" on the side of the page. The 'black dots' are the drilled holes in the top plate.

This was done super-quick, as I'm at home recovering from a bad upper respiratory infection, but hopefully will be enough data to let you do an accurate comparison between the two. My impression is the LIA-100 is a bit bigger than the 77 than the figure you posted, but hopefully with this data, we'll know pretty much for sure.

Earl


Hi Earl,
Thanks for posting your line drawing of the Centuri LIA-100 leg and base.
I thought I had a scan saved of the original Centuri LIA-100 instruction sheet, but I can't seem to find it if I actually did scan it. So, I'm going to have to re-scan it again and upload it.
Since my LIA-100 is painted: Legs flourescent Red and the Base flat black, I'm trying to remember what the actual legs were. I think the legs were Pine or Poplar. I know the base was 1/4" Masonite Hard Board.

Regards,
Larry B

Earl 03-11-2015 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargate
Hi Earl,
Thanks for posting your line drawing of the Centuri LIA-100 leg and base.
I thought I had a scan saved of the original Centuri LIA-100 instruction sheet, but I can't seem to find it if I actually did scan it. So, I'm going to have to re-scan it again and upload it.
Since my LIA-100 is painted: Legs flourescent Red and the Base flat black, I'm trying to remember what the actual legs were. I think the legs were Pine or Poplar. I know the base was 1/4" Masonite Hard Board.

Regards,
Larry B


Larry-

Thanks for the post.....I actually have a complete LIA-100 and the instructions are scanned and posted in my first message of this thread.

In that first message, I was asking if anyone had the larger blast deflector that came with that launcher, as my LIA-100 came with the smaller deflector used on the LIA-77. I think Centuri may have used the same deflector for both launchers in their latter years, but I would really like to find an original larger deflector for my LIA-100 or someone who has one who can provide photos and dimensions of one.

Does your LIA-100 have the larger deflector by chance? Would be great if you can post photos/measurements if you do.

Thanks,

Earl

Stargate 03-12-2015 01:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Larry-

Thanks for the post.....I actually have a complete LIA-100 and the instructions are scanned and posted in my first message of this thread.

In that first message, I was asking if anyone had the larger blast deflector that came with that launcher, as my LIA-100 came with the smaller deflector used on the LIA-77. I think Centuri may have used the same deflector for both launchers in their latter years, but I would really like to find an original larger deflector for my LIA-100 or someone who has one who can provide photos and dimensions of one.

Does your LIA-100 have the larger deflector by chance? Would be great if you can post photos/measurements if you do.

Thanks,

Earl


Earl,
As far as I know, the LIA-100 used the same size blast deflector as the LIA-77.
I'm not 100% certain, but I feel that looking for a larger /scaled up version of the LIA-77 blast deflector just doesn't exist. But I would be glad to be proven wrong on this.

I'm planning on making a few exact clones of the LIA-100 for myself very soon.

Larry B

rocketguy101 03-12-2015 02:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Attached is a drawing of a measured ID-77 blast deflector and the flat layout generated by SolidWorks. The ID-100 is my SWAG scaled from the different sized bases. If anybody comes across an actual ID-100 and can provide those overall dimensions of the folded geometry, I will revise this drawing.

**Edit** I found an error in the model when I added the holes for the wooden micro clip block. I revised the ID-77 dimensions (and rescaled the ID-100). The pdf file attached has been updated...

**Edit 2** The actual ID-100 dimensions are in this post #70

Stargate 03-12-2015 02:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketguy101
Attached is a drawing of a measured ID-77 blast deflector and the flat layout generated by SolidWorks. The ID-100 is my SWAG scaled from the different sized bases. If anybody comes across an actual ID-100 and can provide those overall dimensions of the folded geometry, I will revise this drawing.



David,
I have my LIA-100 metal blast deflector plate right in front of me. It has 3 factory drilled holes in the base of the deflector. 2 holes are for the wood riser block that the 2 micro clip leads attach to, and the other factory drilled hole is for the launch rod.

Your scaled up version of the LIA-77 blast deflector looks just fine. My only issue is that as far as I know, a larger than the LIA-77 blast deflector for the LIA-100 never existed.

However a larger version definitely would have been a good idea.

Larry

rocketguy101 03-12-2015 06:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargate
David,
I have my LIA-100 metal blast deflector plate right in front of me. It has 3 factory drilled holes in the base of the deflector. 2 holes are for the wood riser block that the 2 micro clip leads attach to, and the other factory drilled hole is for the launch rod.

Your scaled up version of the LIA-77 blast deflector looks just fine. My only issue is that as far as I know, a larger than the LIA-77 blast deflector for the LIA-100 never existed.

However a larger version definitely would have been a good idea.

Larry

yeah, I left the holes for the wood block out of laziness...the original flat layout drawing was for a friend who has a shear and brake, and was making some for our club...our Pratt firing system bypassed what would be the Centuri micro clips...I guess for archival purposes, I should document those holes and model the block in CAD too...

Earl 03-12-2015 07:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargate
David,
I have my LIA-100 metal blast deflector plate right in front of me. It has 3 factory drilled holes in the base of the deflector. 2 holes are for the wood riser block that the 2 micro clip leads attach to, and the other factory drilled hole is for the launch rod.

Your scaled up version of the LIA-77 blast deflector looks just fine. My only issue is that as far as I know, a larger than the LIA-77 blast deflector for the LIA-100 never existed.

However a larger version definitely would have been a good idea.

Larry


Larry-

If you look at the instruction set for the LIA-100 (your own copy or the scanned one I posted at the start of this thread), the deflector is listed as part number ID-100. The deflector for the smaller LIA-77 launcher was, logically enough, ID-77. And, the ID-100 was listed at a higher price than the cost of the ID-77.

Also, if you go to the 1969 catalog, there is a page with the Saturn V and Saturn 1b kits on the LIA-100 and LIA-77 launchers, respectively, sitting side by side. Looking at that photo, it does look like the deflector on the LI-100 launcher is larger.

So, my conclusion from the above is that -- at one time -- the LIA-100 came with a different, larger deflector. At some point later on, they may, for cost-cutting purposes, have gone to just one deflector to be used on both launchers, but it does seem they originally had different deflectors.

Earl

Stargate 03-12-2015 08:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Larry-

If you look at the instruction set for the LIA-100 (your own copy or the scanned one I posted at the start of this thread), the deflector is listed as part number ID-100. The deflector for the smaller LIA-77 launcher was, logically enough, ID-77. And, the ID-100 was listed at a higher price than the cost of the ID-77.

Also, if you go to the 1969 catalog, there is a page with the Saturn V and Saturn 1b kits on the LIA-100 and LIA-77 launchers, respectively, sitting side by side. Looking at that photo, it does look like the deflector on the LI-100 launcher is larger.

So, my conclusion from the above is that -- at one time -- the LIA-100 came with a different, larger deflector. At some point later on, they may, for cost-cutting purposes, have gone to just one deflector to be used on both launchers, but it does seem they originally had different deflectors.

Earl


Earl,
Thanks for pointing out the exact part #s ID-77 for the LIA-77, and ID-100 for the LIA-100 launch pads.
You may be correct, in that Centuri may have put the ID-77 blast deflector in with later LIA-100 launch pads. Or, a larger than ID-77 blast deflector was never made.

Kind of like the elusive Centuri KC-9A T-Bird. Have you or anyone ever seen a KC-9A T-Bird?

Larry

rocketguy101 03-14-2015 12:06 PM

When I added the two drilled holes Larry pointed out, I found some errors in the model, so I have corrected the drawing in post 32

Earl 03-14-2015 07:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketguy101
When I added the two drilled holes Larry pointed out, I found some errors in the model, so I have corrected the drawing in post 32


That looks pretty close -- from best I can tell from catalog photos/images -- as to size of the LIA-100 deflector. At about double the catalog price of the ID-77, I suspect the ID-100 actually did exist. But it does seem that at some point, probably in the early 70s after the Damon buyout in early '71, that Centuri may have gone to the ID-77 for both as a cost-cutting measure.

I'm still keeping an eye out for an ID-100 though....

Earl

Faithwalker 05-09-2017 01:08 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Earl,

I've come across an original Centuri ID-100 Igniter-Deflector (blast deflector) for the LIA-100 Heavy Duty Launcher. I can gladly provide dimensions for David (rocketguy101) to model in SolidWorks. The overall formed height is 4" tall. Attached is a photo of the ID-100 Deflector vs. the ID-77 Deflector.

Kind regards,
Jeff
aka: Faithwalker

JohnNGA 05-09-2017 02:13 PM

Cool!! I have an original LIA-77, but I have never seen the LIA-100 (other than photos). Thanks for sharing, and dimensions would be appreciated.


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